D15739: [Places panel] Don't show Root by default

[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham created this revision.
ngraham added reviewers: Dolphin, VDG.
Herald added a project: Frameworks.
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ngraham requested review of this revision.

REVISION SUMMARY
This patch removes Root from the default Places panel for new installations, for the following reasons:

- It's redundant; you can still get to / on your machine in one click using the appropriate disk entry on the bottom of the Places panel.
- The Root item shows up in red, indicating its danger. Dangerous items are probably not a good idea to show by default, especially not right next to safe items such as Home.
- It's not very useful. On Linux systems, messing around with / is discouraged, and Dolphin doesn't even yet have the ability to modify files and folders there anyway even if the user wanted to; it's purely read-only. The usefulness of such a thing is questionable.
- By removing it, we gain room to add something more useful such as a Recent Documents item (D7446 <https://phabricator.kde.org/D7446>) without making the Places panel show a vertical scrollbar with Dolphin's default size.

TEST PLAN
Login in with a new user account or rm `~/.local/share/user-places.xbel` and open Dolphin; notice that Root is not on the Places panel.

[image goes here]

Existing user accounts are untouched.

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REVISION DETAIL
https://phabricator.kde.org/D15739

AFFECTED FILES
src/filewidgets/kfileplacesmodel.cpp

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the test plan for this revision.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a task: T8349: Improve Places panel usability and presentation.

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[Andrew Crouthamel]

acrouthamel added a comment.


+1

Seeing "Root" written as such, also makes me think of `/root`, which makes no sense to have there. The odds of needing quick access to `/` via Dolphin are extremely rare, and there is already a link anyway. People are used to clicking the primary drive to get to root dir.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the summary of this revision.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the test plan for this revision.

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[Kai Uwe Broulik]

broulik added a comment.


+1 it's an entry I always hide when I setup someone's computer

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[Sven Mauch]

svenmauch added a comment.


All arguments make sense. It even looks a lot better without the red folder icon. +1

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[Andres Betts]

abetts added a comment.


+1

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


Do four +1s amount to any formal Accept statuses? ;-)

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[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson requested changes to this revision.
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This revision now requires changes to proceed.


They don't.

Why are you changing the if (windows) code path above the elif?

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.

Post by David Edmundson
They don't.
Why are you changing the if (windows) code path above the elif?

Because that's the windows equivalent of adding Root. I reasoned that if we don't want to show a Places panel entry for Root on Linux, then for similar reasons we wouldn't want to create Places panel entries for Windows disks when on Windows. Don't disks show up in the Devices section on Windows like they do on Linux? Can't test, sorry.

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[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson added a comment.


No idea.

It isn't the same as adding root as it adds every drive quite deliberately.

There is a solid windows device back end, but it needs asking someone.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a subscriber: bruns.
ngraham added a comment.


@bruns, do you know if Solid (and by extension, the Places panel) shows Windows disks when Dolphin is run on Windows?

Side note: does anyone run Dolphin on Windows? Do we distribute it at all?

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[Stefan Brüns]

bruns added a comment.

Post by David Edmundson
They don't.
Why are you changing the if (windows) code path above the elif?

Note this is `_WIN32_WCE`, i.e. dead code. WCE is no more supported by any half way recent Qt version.

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[Stefan Brüns]

bruns added a comment.

Post by Nathaniel Graham
@bruns, do you know if Solid (and by extension, the Places panel) shows Windows disks when Dolphin is run on Windows?
Side note: does anyone run Dolphin on Windows? Do we distribute it at all?

As @davidedmundson said/hinted, Solid uses https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/api/fileapi/nf-fileapi-getlogicaldrives to show the drives in the Devices section (same as done using e.g. UDisks2 on Linux), but this is independent of listing *pathes* (Root, Home) in the Places section.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


Thanks @bruns! So it looks like the Windows code can go after all. @davidedmundson?

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[Roman Gilg]

romangg added a comment.


Imo this patch can go in as it is, but before that I would like to see a patch to have the disk with the root file system getting specially marked (icon, color or text) for the case that several block devices are mounted at the same time.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a subscriber: ndavis.
ngraham added a comment.

Post by Roman Gilg
Imo this patch can go in as it is, but before that I would like to see a patch to have the disk with the root file system getting specially marked (icon, color or text) for the case that several block devices are mounted at the same time.

Yes, that's one of the action items for T8349: Improve Places panel usability and presentation <https://phabricator.kde.org/T8349>. Before we can do it, we first needed a better disk icon, which we now have thanks to @ndavis (see D15853: Change drive-harddisk to more adaptable style <https://phabricator.kde.org/D15853>)! If we want to signify root disk status via the icon, we still need to figure out what to do about emblems, which currently obscure most of the icon for the default 16x16 size. I submitted a patch for that, but it's run into controversy: D15866: Reduce emblem size for very small icons to prevent obscuring too much of the icon <https://phabricator.kde.org/D15866>.

Baby steps...

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[David Edmundson]

davidedmundson resigned from this revision.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the summary of this revision.
ngraham added a dependency: D16653: Use the new `drive-harddisk-root` icon for the root volume.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a dependent revision: D7446: [Places panel] Add a Recently Used item by default.

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[Tomaz Canabrava]

tcanabrava accepted this revision.
tcanabrava added a comment.
This revision is now accepted and ready to land.


too many +1 to not be accepted.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham planned changes to this revision.
ngraham added a comment.


This blows up the places tests; will fix them in this patch.

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[David C]

davidc added a comment.


I strongly advise against this. This change goes against Plasma's brand identity and will provoke a strongly negative reaction from our core audiences.

Plasma is strongly associated with powerful tools and high utility. Users also love having many options. Every time GNOME is criticized for "removing features," or not listening to feedback, we win big. Plasma is frequently praised for being the desktop environment that makes an effort to listen to its users.

I asked for some preliminary feedback on a large Discord server for Linux users. I made sure to specify that the change only applied to the Places link, and Root would remain visible in Devices.

Within **two** minutes of asking:

- 4 users came out strongly against the change
- 1 person was indifferent because they mostly used the terminal for most things outside of Home.
- 2 people suggested removing the desktop link from Places instead of root.
- 1 user asked for the removal of the Devices link to root
- 1 person had never noticed root was listed under Devices

Only the terminal user believed the Places link presented a safety risk to GUI users. Three people said there was no safety risk because Dolphin does not allow the editing of system files.

Two users mentioned proprietary operating systems which provide a direct shortcut to the root directory.
One user said this change would make him **"mad,"** and one person asked if the team thought **users were stupid.** One user said it sounded "like something GNOME would do, not KDE."

This was a quick 5 minute survey, but the feedback was very strong and even emotional.

My personal opinion aligns with many of these comments, and I too find this change out of character for Plasma.
I contribute to Promo and I am certainly not the most technical person here. I use this Places link many times a day. I consider the Devices link to be conceptually different, and it's much less convenient because my root partition is in the middle of my Devices list. I don't ever feel in danger of a misclick because Dolphin prevents any editing or deletion of system files.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


I do not understand why this change provokes any negative reactions. Right now, the Places panel has two items that both lead to the exact same location. This patch simply removes one of them by default, and adding it again if you want is a 10 second operation. No functionality is lost; / can still be accessed with a single click on an item in the Places panel by default. There will still be a "direct shortcut to the root directory".

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[David C]

davidc added a comment.


Are you referring to the mounted device under the Devices section? I'm unaware of how to get to the root directory in a single click using Places, if the existing link is removed.

My question to users addressed the Devices point and I also provided the user feedback re: Devices. As you can see, opinion on the Devices link was mixed, while they were strongly in favor of the Places link. The person who said they wanted `Root` removed from Devices explained that the first time he used Plasma, he saw it mounted there and was afraid he had installed his system onto the wrong partition.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.

Post by David C
Are you referring to the mounted device under the Devices section?

Yes.

Post by David C
I'm unaware of how to get to the root directory in a single click using Places, if the existing link is removed.

Perhaps a visual aid will help. Here is how the Places panel looks today, as of KIO's git master:

F6397673: Places visual aid.png <https://phabricator.kde.org/F6397673>

This patch removed the red-circled item. The blue-circled item is still visible and still takes you to / when clicked on. Does that help? We are also thinking about improving the label given to the Root disk when it doesn't have a disk label. So instead of saying, "XXXX GiB Hard Drive", we could potentially make it say "Root drive" or "Root" or "XXXX GiB Hard Drive (Root)" or anything else, really.

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[David C]

davidc added a comment.


Okay, I was only referring to the Places section, not the entire panel.

I do think changing the default label of `Root`'s mounted device would prevent the confusion of the one user who wanted it removed from Devices. But that was only one of many criticisms of this change.

I think the most emotional responses consider this change to be condescending. Painting `/` as "too dangerous" for the typical user, even though Dolphin already has restrictions that make system damage through the Dolphin GUI impossible. Removing the quick and easy Places link and relying on users to locate `Root` among their mounted physical devices gives the impression that we don't `/` to be easily accessible through Dolphin at all, even if people can't do anything once they get there.

I have an additional concern that this level of obfuscation could have the unintended effect of making things more confusing for truly novice users, who may not realize there is a directory structure beyond `Home` at all. This can create many problems when trying to understand what the system is doing, or when troubleshooting problems.

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[Hazem Salem]

Codezela added a comment.


there is 2 alternatives

1. remove the icon from devices section and keep it in places section with some icon change in the top one
2. keep it in the places section but change the label to root or system and it will always be top of all other hd

with the lock emblem in it and remove the places one

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.

Post by David C
I do think changing the default label of `Root`'s mounted device would prevent the confusion of the one user who wanted it removed from Devices.

Okay great, I will submit a patch to improve that too.

Post by David C
I think the most emotional respondents consider this change to be condescending. Painting `/` as "too dangerous" for the typical user

Who did that? I didn't. In fact, it's the UI itself that currently portrays Root as dangerous by displaying it with a red icon. Red == dangerous in our design language. If anything, this change makes browsing / //less// dangerous. because it's no longer represented by an icon with a red color.

Post by David C
Removing the quick and easy Places link and relying on users to locate `Root` among their mounted physical devices gives the impression that we don't `/` to be easily accessible through Dolphin at all, even if people can't do anything once they get there.

This argument doesn't make any sense to me. It's still there available via one click. I continue to fail to see how this change makes it not "easily accessible through Dolphin at all". You can literally get to / with a single click. Also, the Devices section only shows //internal// partitions so it's not like there will generally be 15 devices crowding the list. And the entire purpose of coming up with a new icon for the rood partition was to make it easy to pick out the root partition when there are multiple partitions in the list. That change was specifically requested as a precondition for doing this.

Post by David C
I'm also worried this could make things more confusing for truly novice users, who may not realize there is a directory structure beyond `Home` at all. This can create many problems when trying to understand what the system is doing, or when troubleshooting.

"Truly novice users" don't have any desire to browse their computer's filesystem. The only people who are ever interested in that are technical experts, either actual or aspiring. I don't think this change will deter them in any way.

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[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.

Post by Nathaniel Graham
This argument doesn't make any sense to me. It's still there available via one click. I continue to fail to see how this change makes it not "easily accessible through Dolphin at all". You can literally get to / with a single click. Also, the Devices section only shows //internal// partitions so it's not like there will generally be 15 devices crowding the list. And the entire purpose of coming up with a new icon for the rood partition was to make it easy to pick out the root partition when there are multiple partitions in the list. That change was specifically requested as a precondition for doing this.

I'm neutral on this change, but it can be argued that having Root next to all the other Places bookmarks makes it easier to reach. That seems rather weak though because it's easy to add back to the laces panel and people who might not want it in Places are currently unable to remove it.

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[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.

maybe there is 2 alternatives
1. remove the icon from devices section and keep it in places section with some icon change in the top one

You mean hide the root partition from Devices and keep the Root Places bookmark? That's what I currently do. I hide my `/` and `/home` partitions and use Places to get to those directories.

2. keep it in the places section but change the label to root or system and it will always be top of all other hd with the lock emblem in it and remove the places one and we need to make the icons little bigger in this side bar what do you think or i come oo late

This confuses me. You say to keep it in Places, but remove it from Places? Keep what above other hard drives?

BTW, the sidebar icons do have adjustable sizes. Perhaps it should be easier to find, but if you right click in an area without something selectable (e.g., a section label), you can go to "Icon Size" and change the size to 16, 22, 32 or 48 px.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham edited the summary of this revision.

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[Hazem Salem]

Codezela added a comment.

Post by Noah Davis

maybe there is 2 alternatives
1. remove the icon from devices section and keep it in places section with some icon change in the top one

You mean hide the root partition from Devices and keep the Root Places bookmark? That's what I currently do. I hide my `/` and `/home` partitions and use Places to get to those directories.

2. keep it in the places section but change the label to root or system and it will always be top of all other hd with the lock emblem in it and remove the places one and we need to make the icons little bigger in this side bar what do you think or i come oo late

This confuses me. You say to keep it in Places, but remove it from Places? Keep what above other hard drives?
BTW, the sidebar icons do have adjustable sizes. Perhaps it should be easier to find, but if you right click in an area without something selectable (e.g., a section label), you can go to "Icon Size" and change the size to 16, 22, 32 or 48 px.

i know that the icons size is adjustable i mean make the default more bigger first time u run dolphin this icons is so small "out of the box experience"
the other thing i mean we may keep the root partion icon on the devices sections and make it fixed position above all other mounted drives so even any hd mounted the root icons still top
i hope i explain well
sorry i know my English is not so good

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[Noah Davis]

ndavis added a comment.

Post by Hazem Salem

Post by Noah Davis

maybe there is 2 alternatives
1. remove the icon from devices section and keep it in places section with some icon change in the top one

You mean hide the root partition from Devices and keep the Root Places bookmark? That's what I currently do. I hide my `/` and `/home` partitions and use Places to get to those directories.

2. keep it in the places section but change the label to root or system and it will always be top of all other hd with the lock emblem in it and remove the places one and we need to make the icons little bigger in this side bar what do you think or i come oo late

This confuses me. You say to keep it in Places, but remove it from Places? Keep what above other hard drives?
BTW, the sidebar icons do have adjustable sizes. Perhaps it should be easier to find, but if you right click in an area without something selectable (e.g., a section label), you can go to "Icon Size" and change the size to 16, 22, 32 or 48 px.

i know that the icons size is adjustable i mean make the default more bigger first time u run dolphin this icons is so small "out of the box experience"
the other thing i mean we may keep the root partion icon on the devices sections and make it fixed position above all other mounted drives so even any hd mounted the root icons still top
i hope i explain well
sorry i know my English is not so good

It's ok, I understand now. Those seem like good ideas.

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To: ngraham, #dolphin, #vdg, tcanabrava
Cc: Codezela, davidc, tcanabrava, ndavis, romangg, bruns, davidedmundson, abetts, svenmauch, broulik, acrouthamel, kde-frameworks-devel, michaelh, ngraham

[Hazem Salem]

Codezela added a comment.

Post by Noah Davis

Post by Hazem Salem
i know that the icons size is adjustable i mean make the default more bigger first time u run dolphin this icons is so small "out of the box experience"
the other thing i mean we may keep the root partion icon on the devices sections and make it fixed position above all other mounted drives so even any hd mounted the root icons still top
i hope i explain well
sorry i know my English is not so good

It's ok, I understand now. Those seem like good ideas.

sorry but i added some picture after

do u see this is my places section
F6398445: Screenshot_20181108_203553.png <https://phabricator.kde.org/F6398445>
can u tell me where is my root
and the phone icon is on top

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To: ngraham, #dolphin, #vdg, tcanabrava
Cc: Codezela, davidc, tcanabrava, ndavis, romangg, bruns, davidedmundson, abetts, svenmauch, broulik, acrouthamel, kde-frameworks-devel, michaelh, ngraham

[Andrew Crouthamel]

acrouthamel added a comment.

Post by Kai Uwe Broulik
+1 it's an entry I always hide when I setup someone's computer

Post by Nathaniel Graham
you can still get to / on your machine in one click using the appropriate disk entry on the bottom of the Places panel.

Which I think shouldn't be there, but I'm too afraid of touching Solid's ignore rules ever again.

You advocate for

Post by Kai Uwe Broulik

Post by Nathaniel Graham

Post by Hazem Salem
i know that the icons size is adjustable i mean make the default more bigger first time u run dolphin this icons is so small "out of the box experience"
the other thing i mean we may keep the root partion icon on the devices sections and make it fixed position above all other mounted drives so even any hd mounted the root icons still top
i hope i explain well
sorry i know my English is not so good

It's ok, I understand now. Those seem like good ideas.

sorry but i added some picture after
do u see this is my places section
F6398445: Screenshot_20181108_203553.png <https://phabricator.kde.org/F6398445>
can u tell me where is my root
and the phone icon is on top

It will have a new icon as Nate linked to earlier.

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.


The image in this patch is out of date since it was added before other changes were made; I need to update it and will do so later today.

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[Elvis Angelaccio]

elvisangelaccio added a comment.

Post by Nathaniel Graham
This blows up the places tests; will fix them in this patch.

It will also break the test in dolphin :(

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[Nathaniel Graham]

ngraham added a comment.

Post by Elvis Angelaccio

Post by Nathaniel Graham
This blows up the places tests; will fix them in this patch.

It will also break the test in dolphin :(

I know, and I'll probably have to fix those with ifdefs :(

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To: ngraham, #dolphin, #vdg, tcanabrava
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